The Ontology of Artificial Intelligence - with John Vervaeke and DC Schindler

This is a discussion that Ken Lowry kindly organized on his YouTube channel and podcast, Climbing Mt. Sophia. The panel includes me, John Vervaeke (@johnvervaeke) and DC Schindler. We talk about the ontology of artificial intelligence from different perspectives: the scientific, philosophical, and spiritual or theological perspectives.

Follow the Climbing Mt. Sophia channel: https://www.youtube.com/@climbingmt.sophia

John Vervaeke’s video essay that prompted this discussion:
John Vervaeke - AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist: https://youtu.be/A-_RdKiDbz4?si=K3SUnyrA1ywedRzf

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up next
00:22 - Intro music
00:47 - Introduction
02:29 - John: Weak AI and Strong AI
05:46 - Cognition and computation
07:00 - Hobbes and Descartes
09:04 - The scientific argument
12:01 - The philosophical argument: Rationality
13:21 - The spiritual argument
15:10 - Thresholds and orienting AI
19:15 - 3 Possibilities with AI
23:07 - Jonathan 1: The economics
24:57 - Jonathan 2: AI is not our child
26:16 - Jonathan 3: Idolatry
28:32 - John's response
31:10 - A reason for hope
34:47 - Back to seeing AI as a child
36:16 - Theology will be the important science
38:32 - Can AI be wise?
42:00 - Schindler 1: Unity that transcends multiplicity and function
47:21 - Schindler 2: The Technological Spirit
51:07 - Schindler 3: The danger of us aligning ourselves to the AI
54:35 - There's no intelligence without life
01:00:24 - What is life?
01:03:18 - The persistence of being: reproduction, autopoiesis
01:08:54 - Darwin brought Plato back
01:13:12 - Symbolic structures
01:16:26 - Divination and gods
01:22:00 - Schindler and Vervaeke respond
01:27:10 - Nuclear weapons
01:29:31 - Sacrifice and our myth traditions
01:36:32 - Finding internal unity
01:49:35 - What god are we incarnating?
01:57:17 - The meta-solution

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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.